TUV leader and prominent figure in the Drumcree stand-off Jim Allister says he’ll be on the side of the law when the issue of illegal bonfires raises its head again next summer.
Asked if he would be calling next year for illegal bonfires to be dismantled and for the police to move in, Mr Allister said that when it comes to illegality, whether on the Garvaghy Road or in “any other community” then “the writ of the law must run”.
Mr Allister was speaking on the Stephen Nolan Show this morning (Monday) on Radio Ulster, where he was grilled about widespread law-breaking connected to the annual marching season, including illegal bonfires, the mass theft of pallets and the flying of flags.
Host Stephen Nolan asked him: “You will call for them [illegal bonfires] to be dismantled? And will you call for the police to move in?”
Mr Allister replied: “Well, they’re not regulated in the sense that bonfires are, but if there’s anyone breaking the law, whether they’re Brendan McKenna, Michelle O’Neill or anyone from any other community, then the law, the writ of the law, must run. I can’t make it plainer than that.”
But Mr Allister refused to be drawn on whether he would describe a crowd gathered around an illegal bonfire “a mob” – a description the TUV leader has routinely applied to crowds on the Garvaghy Road.
“You might trip other people into idiotic positions,” he said. “You’ll not trip me into idiotic positions.”
Transcript of Jim Allister interview.
Stephen Nolan: Answer this clearly for me. Next July when bonfires are built against the rule of law, you will call for them to be dismantled, will you?
Jim Allister: If, if, there, if there’s a High Court ruling saying that something is against the law then I support the rule of law.
SN: There does not need to be a High Court ruling to know that bonfires built without a, a, a landowner’s permission on private land is against the rule of law. Stolen pallets on bonfires is against…
JA: Of course…
SN: … the rule of law. You will call for them to be dismantled? And will you call for the police to move in?
JA: I, eh, let’s not conflate two issues. The parading issue is a regulated sector, it’s regulated by the Parades Commission, they decide what the rule of law is.
SN: Building, building properties and bonfires and things is regulated, it’s regulated by council rules.
JA: Well they’re not regulated in the sense that parades are, but if there’s anyone breaking the law, whether they’re Brendan McKenna, Michelle O’Neill or anyone from any other community, then the law, the writ of the law, must run. I can’t make it plainer than that.
SN: And with regards to bonfires next year, are those people gathering around an illegal bonfire a mob?
JA: Well, I’m not going to speculate into what people doing in the future might…
SN: Oh, come on, Jim, come on.
JA: I’m not as foolish as that, Stephen.
SN: What do you mean speculate? What do you mean speculate? You know exactly what I’m asking you.
JA: No, I don’t.
SN: Yes, you do.
(Crosstalk.)
JA: You might, you might, you might trip other people into idiotic positions, you’ll not be tripping me into idiotic positions.
SN: It’s about consistency, Mr Allister, isn’t it? It’s about whether the rule of law actually does prevail in Northern Ireland
JA: Stephen, Stephen, you can try and deflect from the fundamental here if you like, but the fundamental is we have a current, ongoing situation where the rule of law has been brought into wholesale disrepute, egged on by a First Minister. Now, that is, that’s the seminal issue, and that’s the seminal issue that needs to be addressed. If other breaches of the rule of law arise then expect me to be on the side of the rule of law.
SN: But, Jim, and this programme has been one of the programmes at the forefront of asking this question over many, many months now. When you have flags on lampposts which are tolerated and are against the law, when you have paramilitary flags outside police stations, when you have blatant disregard for the law during bonfire season, it starts to chip away at the integrity of what we all think we need to do, which is abide by the law. And so when now law-breaking is slapping you up the face it’s fair for me to remind you what happens in this country every July, is it not?
JA: I, I’ve never seen a mob take over a road for a week and determine that they will decide who walks down the public highway. I’ve never seen the police stand back for a week and surrender control to the mob on a road. And so let’s not get distracted from what the real issues are here. The real issue is, is the rule of law going to apply in Portadown? Now, let me be very fair, I think it’s utterly appalling and wrong and unlawful for the flying of flags which support and promote paramilitarism and I’d be very happy to see them removed, I have no qualms about that whatsoever, but if you’re trying to induce me into saying that the flag of our country should be removed I’ll not be saying that because that is not a breach of the law.
